[Never]

It seems that a good bit of the Larry King Live show tonight was about the Strong City cult and arrest of Wayne Bent. I didn't know about it until after the first airing so stayed up to see the re-broadcast. I tried to take notes for our overseas members who cannot view it or those who miss it. Excuse the fast typing errors. Copyright folks note that with the exception of a phrase in quotes, this is a summary in my own words.

The show begins with update on the Texas cult
We have Matt, a reporter at the court house, a cop ... so far that they've introduced. All 6 charges are felonies. Investigation started about 3 weeks ago cop says. Bail reduced today from half a million to $50,000. Not posted yet.

Jeff Bent on now. Larry asks for explanation of name Michael Travesser. From archangel Michael and name of area they're living in. Larry asks if Jeff was with him when his dad was informed by God that he was messiah.
He was next door and informed shortly after. He saw his dad was different person after. Larry asks about prophecy that was supposed to be fulfilled last Oct 31st. Jeff says this was not shown well by producer of film. That date was to be beginning of Jubilee, not end of world.

Confirms that Jeff was law officer in CA. Asks if this isn't a switch for him. Jeff says God forced him to leave his career. That's how he was able to accept and understand these unusual events. Larry asks Jeff about the question of Michael having sex with his wife. Jeff says that didn't happen as they (Jeff & wife) were divorced in August 2006, so the consummations happened after they were divorced. Also says the consummations are
not sex. Are a spiritual experience illustrated by a sexual act. They (cult) are not polygamist because polygamy is earthly sexual acts by multiple partners. Michael's are spiritual acts. The women have to overcome early desires and relationships.

Introduces Prudence Welch, former member of cult for 15 years. Her parents still live in compound. Rachel Bernstein - a psychotherapist,
Ben - the producer of the original documentary, and Allan Armstrong - a pastor who used to be with them.

Ben says making documentary was fascinating experience, people were extremely welcoming and forthcoming. Was also disturbing, could see people struggling with inner thoughts. What does he make of Wayne? Ben says not sure how much is real or delusion, but he was extremely welcoming with them.

Allen left due to individual freedoms being lost and Wayne taking control.
Rachel says what disturbed her most was that people were so disengaged. Don't see reality of situation. They're programmed to see innocence of leader.

Back to Prudence. Larry asks why she stayed so long. She really wanted to go to heaven. If you left you would be lost. Every few months was possibility that Jesus was going to come. By the time she left her mind ached.

Larry asks Ben if he thinks Wayne believes it. He does. However, he thinks there are things Wayne has done that he knows are wrong, but there is much delusion there.

Allan talks about the taking away of freedoms. Says members think they have to do this to be close to Wayne. He thinks that they have given up God for Wayne.

Rachel thinks he manipulates people at will. That he realized the power of his charisma.

Back to Jeff. He spoke to his dad after arrangement. Talked about business, how he was feeling, his bail. Wayne is not willing that Jeff give that amount of money to the court for these charges. Caller asks - what convinced Jeff that his father was Jesus Christ. Jeff says he is not Jesus. Jeff knows God and God told him his father is who he is. Larry asks about the episode with naked girls. Jeff doesn't see a problem with nakedness, the girls asked for that. His father never coerced anyone. Lot of mis-conceptions. How many in compound? About 50 presently. Some others associated with group in
the area and a few in Central America. Larry asks how they are paid. He says everyone contributes what they have. If they receive gift, inheritance, etc. all goes in together. (Reference back to the use of all the older members SS earlier in our other thread)

Caller who is born again Christian says Bible says when god returns will meet him in the sky. Jeff responds about the marriage of the lamb. Says this messiah has not touched the earth. "If you don't have oil in your lamp you're going to miss it." [Never's note: no, I didn't get that either, even if I didn't write it all down]

They see themselves like Jesus' followers when he was crucified. He's looking for God to get him out of jail. Jeff doesn't have beliefs, has God, led by a spirit, etc. "Beliefs are sand."

After Larry asking if he's concerned for his dad, among other things Jeff says he of all people has reason to hate his dad, but loves him with all his heart.

[verte]

Thank you, Never, I wasn't able to watch it and this lets me have some idea of what it was about. Even reading your account gives me a slight chill down my spine.

[seeking_the_truth]

I also missed the Larry King Live show, here is a link to the transcripts of the show. [url]http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0805/08/lkl.01.html[/url] .

I wonder what the followers will think if Wayne does get convicted of the crimes against him? Jeff seems to think they won't find him guilty. But my understanding of New Mexico law is that touching underage girls (under 18) inappropriately is a felony. He has 3 charges against him. Sounds like his delusions have caught up with him.

How are all the people that have been lead by him going to endure a unrealistic life without him? This is certainly not something they have prepared for. Life without Wayne/Michael???

[Never]

It looks like there is video (in 5 parts) of the show at this site.

[clansman]

Originally Posted by Never

Allen left due to individual freedoms being lost and Wayne taking control.
Allan talks about the taking away of freedoms. Says members think they have to do this to be close to Wayne. He thinks that they have given up God for Wayne.

Hello everyone, for anyone who doesn't know, I am an ex-member. Let me offer some food for thought. Allen and his wife, Stephany Armstrong were most oppresive and manipulating. You could have quite a time investigating their story truth be told. Talk about power hungry and underhanded. Allen and Stephany wanted to be worshiped with as much ferocity as Wayne! These two I would be very suspicious of. Now it could be that they have changed. They would have to prove that to me.

Originally Posted by Never

Larry asks about the episode with naked girls. Jeff doesn't see a problem with nakedness, the girls asked for that. His father never coerced anyone. Lot of mis-conceptions.

It is evident by Jeff's history that he is a confused individual sexually, morally and spiritually. It looks as if he is ready to assume command of the lords army. Watch out! the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree, and it smells a whole lot worse after a while.

[Godless Dave]

Interesting how Bent's other followers think he is Jesus, but his son doesn't. I wonder if they know what Jeff believes?

[TerryCzap]

If you were not so God-less Dave, you would know what Jeff meant, and also what the other "followers" were meaning also. All of the Travessers are saying virtually the same thing.

Jesus is often known as "Jesus Christ". Jesus is simply the name given to his physical body, while "Christ" is the name of the indwelling Spirit that inhabited Jesus.

In like manner, Wayne Bent is the physical body that houses the Spirit of the Christ in our age. This Christ is inside all of the believers as well. So Wayne is not Jesus, but he is the Christ.

It may be that some of the people have said Jesus has returned, as a way of making others understand that the "return of Christ" has happened.

[Gurdur]

In like manner, Wayne Bent is the physical body that houses the Spirit of the Christ in our age. This Christ is inside all of the believers as well. So Wayne is not Jesus, but he is the Christ.

Bit of a faf-faffle there, TerryCzap, a bit of an evasion. Either aclaim specific to Wayne Bent is being made, that "he is the Christ", or a very general claim is being made, that Christ is in all the believers -- and then therefore there would be nothing special about Wayne Bent at all.

Which is it?

[TerryCzap]

No evasion Gurder, it's just virtually impossible to describe anything of a spiritual nature to an infidel. They don't want to understand anything.

Truly Christ is in all believers, but not all believers have been given the same work. There are nearly 300 million Americans; they all have the spirit of living an American life, but there is only one President. In like manner, Christ is in all believers, but Michael (Wayne Bent) was given the task of being Messiah. Pretty simple really... unless you are an infidel.

[Gurdur]

Originally Posted by TerryCzap

No evasion Gurder, it's just virtually impossible to describe anything of a spiritual nature to an infidel. They don't want to understand anything.

I do try, you know. Give me a chance and I'll use it. How about simply explaining things to me without the prejudice? After all, I am not utterly unknowledgeable in rather advanced theology, I assure you.

Truly Christ is in all believers, but not all believers have been given the same work. There are nearly 300 million Americans; they all have the spirit of living an American life, but there is only one President. In like manner, Christ is in all believers, but Michael (Wayne Bent) was given the task of being Messiah. Pretty simple really... unless you are an infidel.

Sounds like you've got two completely different definitions of "Christ", in that case, at work there, and you call them by the same name. So, as far as figures go, one Messiah Christ, and ...... one non-Messiah Christ? Now, how can there be a non-Messiah Christ?

[TerryCzap]

If an eight year old child can understand this Gurder, why can't you?

[Don Alhambra]

Perhaps because when he was no longer a child, he put away childish things...?

I don't mean to be facetious, but claiming that an eight-year-old child can understand something you refuse to explain is a little bit patronising.

If you really want to reach the 'infidel' then try being a bit clearer about what you're saying and what you want us to believe.

[TerryCzap]

I was very clear Don, that is why an eight year old can understand it. My interest in bantering is fairly low, even pretty well non existent. I answered the original question about Wayne not being Jesus, as it was a fairly legitimate one. I don't have any more answers for anyone on this matter. Lastly, my reference to the "infidel" comes strait from the dictionary;

"one who is not a Christian or who opposes Christianity"

Respectfully,
Terry

[seeking_the_truth]

Originally Posted by TerryCzap

I was very clear Don, that is why an eight year old can understand it. My interest in bantering is fairly low, even pretty well non existent. I answered the original question about Wayne not being Jesus, as it was a fairly legitimate one. I don't have any more answers for anyone on this matter. Lastly, my reference to the "infidel" comes strait from the dictionary;

"one who is not a Christian or who opposes Christianity"

Respectfully,
Terry

You seem to banter a lot for having low interest in it.

My question for you is why not help God-Dave find God, instead of putting him down for his lack of knowledge? This is your area of expertise correct?

[TerryCzap]

To the one who is not seeking the truth. All those who want to find the Father, find him. Those who prefer the life of being apart from him, find that also. It is the universal law.

[cardw]

I have asked the following questions to a number of your members and have been unable to get an answer without being called the son of Satan or some other evasion. Maybe you can give me a straight answer.

1. How can Wayne Bent claim that he is following the Bible when he has committed adultery with two wives of members? This seems to clearly break at least one of the 10 commandments.

2. If Wayne Bent or Michael as you call him asked you to commit suicide, would you. Yes or No

Thanks...

[TerryCzap]

Originally Posted by cardw

I have asked the following questions to a number of your members and have been unable to get an answer without being called the son of Satan or some other evasion. Maybe you can give me a straight answer.

1. How can Wayne Bent claim that he is following the Bible when he has committed adultery with two wives of members? This seems to clearly break at least one of the 10 commandments.

2. If Wayne Bent or Michael as you call him asked you to commit suicide, would you. Yes or No

Thanks...

CardW,

I'd be happy to answer your question about suicide; but regarding adultery, I have two questions for you. You say that you have asked these questions to other members numerous times, yet you have only posted on this forum once before with this name. What name/names have you used when asking your questions numerous times?

Secondly; If a woman divorces her current husband and then remarries, is adultery being committed?

To your second ridiculous question (suicide). I will not be committing suicide at any time, as you yourself are probably doing right now. Do you smoke cigarettes? Do you drink alcohol? Do you eat meat in your diet. If you are doing any of these things, you are committing suicide in a slow manner (like millions of other foolish Americans), yet you think it is a big deal if someone kills themselves in a moment. Suicide is suicide, is it not?

I will be leaving this earth, without dying, and going to my true home to be with my Father.

[cardw]

Secondly; If a woman divorces her current husband and then remarries, is adultery being committed?

Well your group claims to be Biblical, but there are two texts in the Bible that say God hates divorce and yet Wayne Bent has been involved with causing two divorces. So either Wayne is committing adultery or he is doing something that God hates. Not exactly Divine actions or at least according to the Bible.

To your second ridiculous question (suicide). I will not be committing suicide at any time, as you yourself are probably doing right now. Do you smoke cigarettes? Do you drink alcohol? Do you eat meat in your diet. If you are doing any of these things, you are committing suicide in a slow manner (like millions of other foolish Americans), yet you think it is a big deal if someone kills themselves in a moment. Suicide is suicide, is it not?

That wasn't my question. I asked if Michael asked you to commit suicide would you do it? That only requires a YES or NO answer. Its simply hypothetical. So all I need from you is a Yes or No and I will take your world for it.

I will be leaving this earth, without dying, and going to my true home to be with my Father.

Now I know that you believe this to be true. But, what if this doesn't happen and someone dies within your group or if Michael dies before this happens, would you consider that evidence that Michael is not what he claims?

Would this be a false enough prophecy to convince you or are you beyond any critical analysis of Michael's claims?

[TerryCzap]

Regarding suicide, my answer was; "I will not be committing suicide at any time". This answer is all inclusive cardw. Are you doped up or suffering from some other mental catastrophe, from which you cannot perform elementary comprehension skills?

If you cannot understand this answer in its most basic form, how can you understand more complicate matters, like hearing the voice of God?

On the subject of adultery; until you answer my two questions, I have nothing else to say about the subject.

#1. What name/names have you used when asking your questions numerous times?
#2. If a woman divorces her current husband and then remarries, is adultery being committed?

The second question, in your words "requires a yes or no answer".



Terry

[seeking_the_truth]

TerryCzap.....why are you so venomous and spiteful, almost hateful? If this is how you portray Godliness, you are turning me off.

Is it so hard to answer people's questions that want to know more about you and the Travessors? I find that most of you are so defensive it seems useless to talk with you. As you had said in an earlier message that you had no interest in bantering???? You do it so well.

I believe that a Christians purpose in life is to be joyous and spread the word of Christ to others. And when asked questions to be able to give complete answers happily. ??? What about John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. You really don't come off as very loving.

[cardw]

Regarding suicide, my answer was; "I will not be committing suicide at any time". This answer is all inclusive cardw. Are you doped up or suffering from some other mental catastrophe, from which you cannot perform elementary comprehension skills?

Terry, did I insult you? You appear pretty angry. I'm trying to keep our conversation civil.

There is a difference between your answer and the question I asked. I did not ask you if you were going to commit suicide.

I asked you if Michael asked you, and I assume he has not asked you yet, if he asked you to commit suicide, sometime in the future, would you commit suicide? This question you have NOT answered and rather than insulting me a simple NO will suffice.

#1. What name/names have you used when asking your questions numerous times?
#2. If a woman divorces her current husband and then remarries, is adultery being committed?

You will find my name and my question on my blog link. It is Richard Harty. I asked Grace, Benjiman, and Liberty the same question. You will find the first instance in my blog and the 2nd and 3rd instance in Liberty's blog.

2. NO

But there is a second part of the question and I think I covered the implication that if someone has been divorced then its not adultery, but there is the fine point of under what circumstances divorce is allowed and my understanding is that divorce is only allowable under infidelity and I am not aware of any infidelity.

The second part of my question was in regard to the texts that clearly indicate that God hates divorce and it appears that Michael is partially responsible for both of these divorces and is participating in something that God hates.

So maybe you can clear this up without hurling insults at me.

[TerryCzap]

My question to cardw was;

“If a woman divorces her current husband and then remarries, is adultery being committed?”

cardw’s answer is; “No”.


Your answer explains why no adultery has been committed by Travesser. Now your question that you have asked so many times has been answered. “Following the Bible” means to do everything God tells that person to do. Abraham obeyed God and proceeded to kill his own son (as the heathen were doing) until an angel stopped him.

I don’t suppose you will understand this, but I think we could talk about it for a year or two and nothing would change your mind. We have explained these matters in great detail, from which many people have come to understand the controversy, and understand how adultery did not take place, nor is it even the issue here. I would suggest that if you are not satisfied with this answer, you can read from our web site and it could be that God could tell you what is true.

---------------------------------------

To the pure in heart, the meek and lowly person; I am a Lamb of God and as soft as a bunny.

To the proud, self-righteous one, whose God is their own ego;, I am a Lion of The Tribe of Judah.

[cardw]

Your answer explains why no adultery has been committed by Travesser.

Well, you didn't address all the issues I brought up in regard to divorce. As far as I understand Biblical divorce, it is only allowable under infidelity. There was no infidelity that I could tell. And divorce is something that God hates.

I don't understand how you can claim that you are Biblical when you aren't following the rules of divorce.

Why would Wayne contribute to something that God Hates?

Why would Wayne allow divorce under other conditions than infidelity?

That seems rather confusing to me.

Now your question that you have asked so many times has been answered. “Following the Bible” means to do everything God tells that person to do. Abraham obeyed God and proceeded to kill his own son (as the heathen were doing) until an angel stopped him.

So, as I understand your answer, you are saying that if Michael asked you to commit suicide, you would. So basically Michael could ask you to do anything, no matter how immoral, and you would do it.

Have you considered that the only reason you never question anything that Michael says is that Michael is not accountable to anyone or anything. In other words, there is no rational dialog or evidence that would convince you that Michael is wrong.

One last question. If Michael dies before there is a second coming, would this be enough evidence that Michael is at least delusional and not telling the truth, even though he thinks he is?

[TerryCzap]

Your level of unbelief is certainly insurmountable. How many times do I need to say “I will not be committing suicide.... ever” before the one who seems to have no ability to reason believes me? Well, you are like many others who, along with their perverted imaginations, must make up stories about us.

You continue to parrot the sentiments of the mob, who also still foster the idea that Michael predicted the end of the world. The morons who refuse to apply logic, also refuse to do some basic fact checking before spreading their nonsense. I noticed you did not post my comment on your blog about Michael’s doomsday prediction.

cardw, the reason that you refuse to believe me about suicide (or adultery), is that you have the spirit of your father (the Devil). I will leave you to the demons that you love to fornicate and commit adultery with, as it would be pointless to say any more to you.

[cardw]

Your level of unbelief is certainly insurmountable. How many times do I need to say “I will not be committing suicide.... ever” before the one who seems to have no ability to reason believes me? Well, you are like many others who, along with their perverted imaginations, must make up stories about us.

I haven't said you would do anything. You stated the following...

“Following the Bible” means to do everything God tells that person to do. Abraham obeyed God and proceeded to kill his own son (as the heathen were doing) until an angel stopped him.

Since you consider Michael to be God or the vehicle of God's word I assumed you meant that you would do whatever he told you including suicide. Since you referenced Abraham killing his own son, that seemed to indicate that you would be willing to kill either someone else or yourself if you thought God instructed it through Michael.

I noticed you did not post my comment on your blog about Michael’s doomsday prediction.

I never got the comment from you to publish. You also might want to note that I have been locked out from commenting on the blogs of your community.

cardw, the reason that you refuse to believe me about suicide (or adultery), is that you have the spirit of your father (the Devil). I will leave you to the demons that you love to fornicate and commit adultery with, as it would be pointless to say any more to you.

This seems unnecessary and really indicates that you have a problem having an honest conversation. When people start to use name calling it is usually an indication that they are either unable to comprehend the question or they have something to hide.

I have treated you with nothing but respect and honest inquiry. Your treatment of me indicates an inability on your part to treat me with respect. If this is the fruit of your connection with Michael, then this further indicates the lack of any real spiritual connection.

If you did have that connection then you behavior would reflect a much more kind and loving manner.

You also continue to evade my questions with insults. This is a form of dishonesty. So I can understand why those who have contact with you tend to not believe you.

[TerryCzap]

I have treated you with nothing but respect and honest inquiry. Your treatment of me indicates an inability on your part to treat me with respect.

I will be very clear here cardw. You have not communicated to me with any form of “honest inquiry”. or respect. In fact, your approach has been just the opposite.

Your question about adultery had been clearly answered by myself and others, but you refuse to accept these answers and still want to present Michael as a lawbreaker (just as the pharisees did with Jesus). You continue to reject the obvious truth that is right before you, and instead, continually put forth the position that you hold to be true (Michael committed adultery). This is the fruit of a dishonest person.

Jesus said of Nathaniel, that he was a man of no guile (deception). If Jesus were standing before you today, he would say that you are full of guile, deception and dishonesty.

As for respect; if you had any respect for me, you would not repeat your question/suggestion that I would commit suicide at some time in the future. No, a respectful person believes the testimony that another person gives, after it is said only once.

Asking this suicide question over and over reminds me of Nat/Geo’s film director Ben Anthony, who was also of the mindset that we would kill ourselves. A dozen times or more he asked [url=http://strongcity.info/LOR/sc/post/what_we_said_about_the_prophecy/]what we expected[/url] to happen on Oct. 31. The answer to his question was always some form of “we don’t know”, but he would not believe us. As I considered his repetition of this same question again and again and again, the truth came home to me; “how many times must a man ask the same question, getting the same answer each time, before he reveals his own insanity”?

I understand you perfectly cardw. Since you are a deceiver and only reflect the spirit of your father (the Devil) you cannot do anything but what he did.

[cardw]

Your question about adultery had been clearly answered by myself and others, but you refuse to accept these answers and still want to present Michael as a lawbreaker (just as the pharisees did with Jesus). You continue to reject the obvious truth that is right before you, and instead, continually put forth the position that you hold to be true (Michael committed adultery). This is the fruit of a dishonest person.

The problem is you are not clear in your answers. I have tried to explain my questions but you give me some complicated evasion. When I asked you for a Yes or No, you simply refused by answering otherwise.

You continue to evade the details of the question and keep saying that you have answered the question. That's called lying.

I understand that you have committed a lot to your position, but that also is a block to considering other alternatives to your beliefs.

So, when ever you are willing to actually answer the questions I will read and consider.