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Yes, there is a middle ground. Tackling the bullying & defamation going on in the atheist movement

 
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Old 01-Jun-2013, 06:30 PM (18:30)     31        46815
DianeBruce
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So far 34 people have joined the Hub over the last couple of days owing to this call for marking out a new middle-ground. And there hasn't even been any major publicity drive at all, which makes all this one hell of a lot of unexpected success.

Edited to add: now 35.
I'd love for the fishy one (She knows who she is) to start a thread on the Unsermon http://www.meetup.com/CFI-ottawa/events/118151922/ as though I help run it, I did not start it. I'd love to hear more from the woman who did set it up, what prompted it, how long it has been running. I find it a great way to get rational discussion going.

I think it is a great idea other local groups could set up in their area.
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Old 01-Jun-2013, 10:28 PM (22:28)     32        46828
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I technically can't become a grandmother for at least another 10 years
Adopt? Can one legally adopt someone as one's grandchild? Just askin'. JAQjoke.
Biologically then
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Old 02-Jun-2013, 03:14 PM (15:14)     33        46867
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I posted a brief announcement about this new initiative on the Hub. Reactions so far have been interesting. I imagine more will accumulate over the next couple days.
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Old 02-Jun-2013, 10:43 PM (22:43)     34        46893
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This thread has now been moved to the new forum made to collect all such topics. the new forum is called: "Towards a moderate, middle-ground in the atheist movement".
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Old 04-Jun-2013, 04:46 PM (16:46)     35        47018
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It is sort of sweet how deeply theists and atheists care about their beliefs. It can be confusing to bystanders and in the interest of full disclosure it might be helpful to differentiate between the atheist sects- perhaps a-theists and anti-theists? The persistence of evangelical atheists can be bothersome, but did not realize that many had resorted to bullying and name calling
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Old 05-Jun-2013, 04:37 AM (04:37)     36        47040
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There is statement here which readers may wish to consider signing.

http://www.skepticwomen.com/welcome-statement
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Old 05-Jun-2013, 08:51 AM (08:51)     37        47047
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In reference to the concept of civility in the discourse between theists and atheists (as I consider the middle ground generally inhabited by the less fanatical and more reasonable folk), a term alicat mentions has always annoyed me: anti-theist.

I know that many theists consider all atheists to be anti-theist as well, but I don't consider that a fair accusation. I'm not anti-theist, I don't consider myself in opposition to the people who believe but rather the beliefs they hold.

People mare people, we all hold a few irrational beliefs. Most rationalists, skeptics and atheists make a concerted effort to limit the degree and scope of our irrational beliefs, but being human we can't eliminate them entirely. I don't blame the average person for holding irrational beliefs, but I can and do challenge those beliefs when I encounter them, even in myself. The only way in which I can honestly be said to be anti-theist is in my antagonism toward those wealthy and powerful religious leaders who only care about their status and privilege, who take no notice of the real world needs of their followers.

I'm not anti-theist, I'm anti-theism. I oppose the religious beliefs people hold, not the people who hold them. In fact, it's my empathy and concern for those people that motivates me to try and free them from superstition and unrealistic beliefs.
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Old 05-Jun-2013, 02:02 PM (14:02)     38        47057
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Right on, Jack. As I admit my own self, I can certainly be irrational about some things some times. Folks are just folks, doing and thinking in the way humans tend to do. We may deplore the actions and thoughts but not the people themselves. That's the way to the middle ground, IMHO.
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Old 05-Jun-2013, 03:13 PM (15:13)     39        47060
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Jack C,

I'm anti-theist, but I believe the same as you do. I've always used the term 'anti-theist' to mean 'someone who is against theism'. I admit it could be interpreted in either way, but not every anti-theist is anti-people-who-are-theists.
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Old 05-Jun-2013, 10:18 PM (22:18)     40        47084
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It looks like the open letter by Skeptic Women that Jack mentioned above was submitted to reddit/atheism: http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comm..._tactics_used/
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Old 05-Jun-2013, 10:51 PM (22:51)     41        47093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCarlson View Post
In reference to the concept of civility in the discourse between theists and atheists (as I consider the middle ground generally inhabited by the less fanatical and more reasonable folk), a term alicat mentions has always annoyed me: anti-theist.

I know that many theists consider all atheists to be anti-theist as well, but I don't consider that a fair accusation. I'm not anti-theist, I don't consider myself in opposition to the people who believe but rather the beliefs they hold.

People mare people, we all hold a few irrational beliefs. Most rationalists, skeptics and atheists make a concerted effort to limit the degree and scope of our irrational beliefs, but being human we can't eliminate them entirely. I don't blame the average person for holding irrational beliefs, but I can and do challenge those beliefs when I encounter them, even in myself. The only way in which I can honestly be said to be anti-theist is in my antagonism toward those wealthy and powerful religious leaders who only care about their status and privilege, who take no notice of the real world needs of their followers.

I'm not anti-theist, I'm anti-theism. I oppose the religious beliefs people hold, not the people who hold them. In fact, it's my empathy and concern for those people that motivates me to try and free them from superstition and unrealistic beliefs.
Sure and people are much more than their beliefs, so I will say antitheism too. I'm more of a pantheist, most religions do have behind the power seeking and control issues, a nice little message about gratitude, virtue and love. A heart centered life somehow seems richer and more alive than all mental focus. Art, music, wonder and inspiration and lots of cool things might not be completely rational. I still haven't completely given up on the collective unconscious either. Many hospice patients still find more comfort in the idea of coming home to Jesus that they do in modern medicine and psychological counseling. So it sounds like most here are antitheism, obviously religion not sole cause for people fighting since common in antitheism community. I'm atheist when it comes to omnipotent anthropomorphic gods, but anarchist to what others believe as long as they don't use their beliefs to justify oppression. I'm not sure it's rational to throw 4000 years of human philosophy and knowledge away to discard all ideas of divinity based on Western materialistic and scientific thinking, could be another passing fad.

Sorry if I'm sidetracking your thread since I'm not really part of your groups. Perhaps there's a middle ground somewhere that all people can stand on, but we splinter up into little groups, then the little groups disagree and that came from the mind.
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Old 06-Jun-2013, 02:39 AM (02:39)     42        47100
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Alicat. Well, goodness. How did you hear of the happenings, that you spring up now? Long time no see.
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Old 06-Jun-2013, 05:01 PM (17:01)     43        47113
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Hi Gurdur! I just heard through regular cosmic resonance since I like you and stay tuned into your forum. Don't know any of the other forums and sites mentioned or much about politics in the atheist community, but good luck with the middle ground. How are you?
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Old 06-Jun-2013, 08:20 PM (20:20)     44        47127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alicat View Post
Hi Gurdur! I just heard through regular cosmic resonance since I like you and stay tuned into your forum. Don't know any of the other forums and sites mentioned or much about politics in the atheist community, but good luck with the middle ground. How are you?
Well, many thanks! I'm just headbanging away at brick walls, as per the usual. Some bricks have crumbled under my stubbornness.
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Old 06-Jun-2013, 09:20 PM (21:20)     45        47130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurdur View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by alicat View Post
Hi Gurdur! I just heard through regular cosmic resonance since I like you and stay tuned into your forum. Don't know any of the other forums and sites mentioned or much about politics in the atheist community, but good luck with the middle ground. How are you?
Well, many thanks! I'm just headbanging away at brick walls, as per the usual. Some bricks have crumbled under my stubbornness.
Ouch! Once in a while you can go through them, that's just regular quantum tunneling, but doesn't work very often with heads and bricks. Perhaps a sledgehammer?
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Old 06-Jun-2013, 10:56 PM (22:56)     46        47132
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.... Perhaps a sledgehammer?
This is where [and how] I use my head.
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Old 07-Jun-2013, 03:39 PM (15:39)     47        47162
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As long as it's the bricks and not your head that crumbles. . . .
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