[Moriah Conquering Wind]

Well we already have this thread for dissection and the like, we can still have the private thread for more personal stuffs, neh?

[dreadnought]

The main reason I would want it private is because I'll intend to say anything I feel like saying. It is for the protection of those that read it more than myself which doesn't mean I'm not vulnerable, far from it, only that I have a solution to being hurt that others would have trouble accepting. There is also the issue of children/youngsters happening by in what is basically a completely open forum. Sorry for being less than direct as to what my solution entails.

Anyway I would love it if HNA as well as anyone else who are interested would join. It's not a competition in weirdness, nor in depth of problems, only an asylum where strangeness is to be expected and tolerated. The more normal perspective also has it's place in such a setting and who can judge what is normal anyway.

[Gurdur]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

The main reason I would want it private is because I'll intend to say anything I feel like saying. It is for the protection of those that read it more than myself which doesn't mean I'm not vulnerable, far from it, only that I have a solution to being hurt that others would have trouble accepting.

The new private support forum will be up in a couple of days, so you will then have the opportunity to speak in full privacy.

Anyway I would love it if HNA as well as anyone else who are interested would join. It's not a competition in weirdness, nor in depth of problems, only an asylum where strangeness is to be expected and tolerated. The more normal perspective also has it's place in such a setting and who can judge what is normal anyway.

The new forum will be based on a kind of equality, so those without mental conflicts like this won't be permitted to have access to the new forum -- not even I will have access.

To have threads where everyone joins in would need a public thread.

[Christina]

To sort of switch the focus a bit, for me there is this strong relationship between mood and the speed of my thoughts. I don't know which causes which, or if some other thing causes both. Feeling excited, anxious, frustrated, angry or very happy goes along with a faster pace of thinking, and sadness, being tired, or worried goes along with a sluggish feeling to my thoughts. Is it like that for other people, or is it your perception that your think at more or less the same pace all the time regardless of what you're feeling emotionally?

It's frustrating - the first question my doctor always asked me is if I'm having racing thoughts. Racing compared to what? I don't know. I can describe it relative to how fast they were going at some other point, but not relative to whatever 'normal' is since I have no idea of how fast anyone else's thoughts go. I'm almost always going really fast and mostly loving it, so to me racing means scary-fast but she might mean something much slower as a baseline. A lot of the time the world feels like it's going in slow motion to me and everyone is getting in my way just so that they can slow me down and irritate me. That's when I feel like I'm starting to go too fast because it's bugging me, but maybe 'too fast' is long before that point. I don't know.

[verte]

I hate being asked that question - which kind of racing thoughts? The ADD kind or the manic kind? Chocolate or caramel?

[Christina]

That's interesting to me too. Sometimes ADHD sounds familiar in terms of focus but I don't think it's caused by the same thing. I can focus intensely on things for hours at a time as long as they don't slow down. The moment they do my mind leaps off onto something else to think about. I have a really hard time watching TV if there are commercials because I forget to come back to it when it starts again, and if the pace of a movie slows down for a moment I think about something else and lose the plot. Is that what ADHD is like? For me it has everything to do with whether or not it can go at my pace.

[verte]

I can hyperfocus, but only if it's something I'm really interested in. Even with meds, I have a low tolerance for boredom. I used to take silly putty to meetings and roll it around under the table to keep myself from fidgeting. I wander off during commercials and start goofing around on the computer or sorting paintbrushes, and instead of being away for 2 minutes, it's 20. It's a different rhythm from bipolar, more of a constant quiet ticking, like a watch, where bipolar is like tornado season.

[Christina]

I have no tolerance for boredom, which for me primarily means being in some situation where I can't entertain myself, or being forced to go slower than I want to in order to be polite. (Prior to the translation, that would have been something rude like 'waiting for someone to take half a lifetime to say nothing worth listening to').

When I'm going really fast at work and someone interrupts me it's like mentally slamming into a brick wall and instantly frustrating and irritating. It's the single most important reaction of mine to control in order to not piss people off, and the hardest. I get so mad at myself when I let my impatience show.

[His Noodly Appendage]

"...and will you please stop finishing your sentences. I am not a bloody fool."

I'd describe trying to get something done with ADHD as somewhat akin to an attractive woman trying to have a serious conversation with one of twenty bored pubescent boys.

[Christina]

Originally Posted by His Noodly Appendage

"...and will you please stop finishing your sentences. I am not a bloody fool."

Exactly. I know where they're going with it already.

I should get to talk for as long as I want, and in as disorganized a manner as I want, and everyone else should just get to the point as quickly as possible. No one understands me ; )

[Moriah Conquering Wind]

It has no tolerance for boredom either, despises situations that "tether" it where it cannot DO anything but "endure", such as lengthy meetings (it hits saturation level after the first 45-60 minutes; after that it cannot absorb further), or waiting on queue for anything, or sitting in traffic that doesn't move, etc. It has severe time distortion, something others don't get no matter how often it tellsy. if it has to wait, say, two days for something, it can feel more like two months; what others might mistake for impatience stems from this torturous protraction of deferral. Passing through time it can seem to stretch into eternity, and yet having gone through some period it will appear afterwards highly compressed as if it had been but an eyeblink. (We won't get into wormholes and timeslipping here, too messy and outre.)

It can totally sympathise with the dilemma of having someone interrupt the flow of thoughts & processes at work. Slamming into a brick wall bes a perfect analogy and it has the same difficulties trying to stifle natural reaction to that. It has nice co-workers so it does not want to take too much advantage of their kindness and tolerance but it really cannot help that initial reaction of WHAT!

[Moriah Conquering Wind]

Originally Posted by Christina

Exactly. I know where they're going with it already.

ZOMG YES YES YES!!!! THAT BES IT EXACTLY!!!!

Originally Posted by Christina

I should get to talk for as long as I want, and in as disorganized a manner as I want, and everyone else should just get to the point as quickly as possible. No one understands me ; )

[Moriah Conquering Wind]

Originally Posted by Christina

I have a really hard time watching TV if there are commercials because I forget to come back to it when it starts again, and if the pace of a movie slows down for a moment I think about something else and lose the plot.

That bes why the good techgods makesy them DVDs and TiVOs!!

[Christina]

Lines and traffic jams are the worst. I end up literally rocking back and forth in my seat after a few minutes of crawling traffic. Luckily I don't have to deal with it very often. Long lines are almost intolerable. It's really hard for me to ask friends to make 'accomodations' for me because it seems weird to ask to be let off the hook about things that no one else likes either, but that's one that I wimp out and ask for. Besides, they'll offer to let me go wander around while they stand on line after the first time they have to put up with me standing there with them and shaking with impatience.

[Christina]

If it weren't for things I could put on pause, I would never see a movie. It's not too bad in a theater because it's big and loud and there's nothing else to do anyway.

[His Noodly Appendage]

Heh, Christina. You should see me get talking to a fellow ADDer. Something tells me even you couldn't keep up. We can go fast, but also we can skip three steps at a time.

That's the thing - we're very, very good at following wild, arbitrary tangents, because everything is a wild, arbitrary tangent. Where NTs see one association with a concept, we see fifty, and they're all 'primary'.

So when we get up to speed, we just throw out distant landmarks, and let them construct the path between the two points as the unspoken text of the conversation.

I don't know if I could construct an example for you, though. It's too hard to do manually.

I do know that "...hang on, how did you know what the hell I was talking about?" is a common phrase in my house. Something along the lines of:

Hey, did you

The bastards.

WTF?

Sending those refugees back.

HOW THE FUCK?

You were talking to Ally about the newsreader earlier.

But... I didn't.. how...?

heh

Put me in a room with an ADDer, and we just keep up the leapfrog without needing to backtrack.

Interestingly, they're about the only people that don't leave me drained and exhausted from talking to them face to face.

[Christina]

That would be so relaxing. A friend of mine (that's dead now) talked as fast as I do and we would just talk at each other full blast at the same time without ever stopping to listen and understood everything that the other one said. It was the same concept but we'd cover 30 subjects in 4 or 5 minutes.

I know what you mean about the exhaustion of talking face to face. This is so much easier for me because I can read as fast as I want and it doesn't have to hold my attention waiting for an answer.

[His Noodly Appendage]

Hehehe

I bet you read like I do, too - just picking out the key words and phrases, and constructing the rest from shape and context, relying on the massive plodding redundancy of English phrasing to steer you right.

It's like stepping up from phonics to word-recognition, only taken up a level.

I'm de dum de dee de shops, de dum de diddly milk, dum da de da de want?

[Moriah Conquering Wind]

Originally Posted by Christina

That would be so relaxing. A friend of mine (that's dead now) talked as fast as I do and we would just talk at each other full blast at the same time without ever stopping to listen and understood everything that the other one said. It was the same concept but we'd cover 30 subjects in 4 or 5 minutes.

For some reason this reminds Moriah of the time it dropped acid one night with first hubby shortly after the birth of its second child and at some point during the trip between the two of us -- who had no training in such things nor even prior to that moment so much as a passing interest -- we had figured out the ENTIRE schema of the global economy in about 5 minutes. Everything from taxes to stocks to real estate to gold prices to exchange rates -- you name it, we had it all in there. Like it said neither one of us had ever had so much as a passing interest in the subject let alone cracked a book, but we cracked open our minds with a little entheogenic catalyst and danced the Akashic on that one, it can tellsy!

I know what you mean about the exhaustion of talking face to face. This is so much easier for me because I can read as fast as I want and it doesn't have to hold my attention waiting for an answer.

*nod*

[dreadnought]

There is no problem for me with people talking slow or fast. The only problem is with people not deciding immediately. If I have a suggestion (usually I have 10 at any given moment) I expect others to say "yes, great idea" or "No, that sucks, but a better suggestion is..." right away. If they say "I'll have to think about it" I can stand waiting up to a day for an answer, but more than that and I'll either have forgotten/given up the suggestion, lost interest or gone ahead and done it already.

[Don Alhambra]

Moderation message: I'm thinking of splitting this off into two threads: the original brain/emotions discussion and another that is more focused on how the world appears to the non-neurotypical. I think there's a wealth of information and interest in both. Will do it later today when I get some time.

[Don Alhambra]

Moderation message: Split complete. Hope you like the new name! Let's try and keep this on-topic and leave the sciencey stuff for the other thread.

[Christina]

Originally Posted by His Noodly Appendage

Hehehe

I bet you read like I do, too - just picking out the key words and phrases, and constructing the rest from shape and context, relying on the massive plodding redundancy of English phrasing to steer you right.

It's like stepping up from phonics to word-recognition, only taken up a level.

I'm de dum de dee de shops, de dum de diddly milk, dum da de da de want?

Yep. I read ridiculously fast. It isn't that finger-down-the-page speed reading, I don't think, but I don't slow myself down by saying the words in my head or reading each and every one of them. I have to force myself to slow down with books where the style of writing is part of the pleasure of reading it. People have said that they have to listen to me talk that way - leave out everything but the nouns and verbs and try to get the gist from that.

[Christina]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

There is no problem for me with people talking slow or fast. The only problem is with people not deciding immediately. If I have a suggestion (usually I have 10 at any given moment) I expect others to say "yes, great idea" or "No, that sucks, but a better suggestion is..." right away. If they say "I'll have to think about it" I can stand waiting up to a day for an answer, but more than that and I'll either have forgotten/given up the suggestion, lost interest or gone ahead and done it already.

Indeciveness drives me nuts. Once someone has all of the information, what are they waiting for? Just make the damn decision and move on. I don't really understand 'mulling things over'. What are they doing in there that's taking so long?

[Christina]

Originally Posted by Moriah Conquering Wind

*nod*

Do you have trouble using instant messengers? I do because almost no one can type fast enough for me to stay focused on it unless they use that annoying textspeak stuff.


ETA: Thanks, Don : )

[Moriah Conquering Wind]

Originally Posted by Christina

Indeciveness drives me nuts. Once someone has all of the information, what are they waiting for? Just make the damn decision and move on. I don't really understand 'mulling things over'. What are they doing in there that's taking so long?

This one doesn't "get" human faculty of "volition", period.
For starters, what do you mean, "let"?? What bes you accusing it of?? There bes no "let" here. What BES that? *skritch*

And this whole "decide" thing you all talksy about constantly. WHAT bes you meaning??? True, it bes learned to use the word in what it believes to be appropriate context from having grown up among you, but it has no clue what you bes pointing to when you says it. Some ppls talksy about spiritual things bes "fairy tale bullshit" well Moriah thinks "will" bes a non-entity and a consensus fabrication as well. WHERE bes it then? WHAT button pushies you to make it "go"??? And WTF bes you all prattling on about in the first place????

That shit has been a vexation since it bes very small child but even moreso for obvious reasons since it became Inhabited.

[Don Alhambra]

Originally Posted by Moriah Conquering Wind

Moriah thinks "will" bes a non-entity and a consensus fabrication as well

Oddly enough, I tend to agree for very different reasons.

Gurdur does not.

[Gurdur]

Originally Posted by Don Alhambra

Oddly enough, I tend to agree for very different reasons.

Gurdur does not.

Much more complex than that.

Freedom of will is a continuum for humans, and what appear like disassociative syndromes* tend to cut down a hell of a lot on meaningful freedom of will.

IOW, I can see why Moriah feels the way she does, and I would agree with her for some cases.
___________

* I say "appear like disassociative syndromes", because at the end of it, assuming that such things are disassociative syndromes and not actual Inhabitation is largely a prior assumption, or IOW metaphysical naturalism is both a deduction and a prior assumption, and a fair bit circular --- just as every single metaphysical view is.

[dreadnought]

I can understand that some would say we don't have "free will", but how do you reason that people don't have will? Not really talking about you here, Moriah, as in your case you see your will as having been taken over by other agents (let me know if I've misunderstood this), but for most others the agent having the will is themselves. Care to expand on that, Don? Or anyone else?

[Don Alhambra]

Start a thread on it, sure. We've got one on Mary already...